Wax etc Advice Needed

[Voltex]

I admit it. I have not waxed, polished, etc a car for 30 years. So I am experimenting on my older cars. I have washed and clay barred two. Very nice. Taking it the next level on my 7 year old Odyssey minivan, 112k miles, maroon. I don't care how it turns out other than to learn how to do it right so I can apply it to the C30 and my wifes car (sorry kids, do your own ).

Microfiber mitt for washing and microfiber cloths for drying. Meguiars Gold Class car wash. Mothers Calif Gold clay bar and detailer as lubricant. Does a good job.

Following some vandalism last year, the van was washed, clayed, waxed by a pro. Looked great. After some time, swirls became evident. Also, when I drive in a really dusty area the dust clung to where %$#@* had been written on the van and it was very readable.

So, tonight I washed and clayed the hood of the van. Applied 3M Scratch Remover. It removed the swirls. The paint became a little clearer and deeper colored, but damage from birds is still evident and there appear to be water spots in the paint. However, if you run your hand across the damage you cannot feel anything. I then waxed 1/2 of the hood with Meguiars Gold Class Liquid Wax. The spots and bird damage is still evident.

So, what do you suggest?

Is the damage below the clear coat (but if so, would I not feel that?)
Would using an orbiter with the 3M Scratch Remover remove the spots or bird damage? (Costco has a $15 car orbiter).
Should I use a more aggressive scratch remover and if so what?
Should I do the scratch remover by hand and then use an orbiter for the wax?
Or once you have these paint flaws, is it beyond fixing without $$$$?
Should I get Paris Hilton to lay on the hood and then nobody will notice the paint flaws?

Inquiring minds want to know what to do next. Help! (My buddy is wondering the same regarding his black Mustang).

[UpNorth]

I think the Paris Hilton strategy is the way to go. but if you can convince her to pose on a minivan, your talents are being wasted here worrying about possible etching in your paint.

I can't explain what you are experiencing in terms of not being able to feel yet still seeing what seems to be water marks or the lovely reminder of our winged friends.

But I don't think that the costco orbitol is going to do much besides save you a little elbow grease while waxing. I think for correction, you are going to want something with a little more ooommph, like a porter cable dual action polisher. (There are other variants and brands too.) Purists might argue for a rotary, but the rotary's increased ability to correct paint also means a greater chance of doing real and potentially serious oops-need-a-repaint damage. The PC 7424 does vibrate a bit, but it seems like a safe toy when used with even minimal common sense. autogeek & other retailers offer packages to set you up with the machine and all the different pads you need. (but it will likely cost in the neighborhood of 10 times the costco machine.)

You might be able to fix the problems you have by hand, but I think it will take a long time and you'll need to pace yourself. Like this weekend I'll do this little square or the "%" and the "#". (I haven't tried the 3M Scratch remover or Scratch X so I can't say much about them other than note others have had success.)

I went most of my life without it ever occuring to me to do something other than run my car through the automated wash or stop at a high school fundraiser. But a couple years ago, events in my life conspired to get me interested in learning how to really take care of a car and I spent a lot of time at autopia.org reading about detailing and asking questions when I couldn't figure something out or find the answer. It's a great resource.

A couple summers ago I got my porter cable and it really increased the range of what I can do. I only use it a couple times a year, for my spring and winter major details, but it's worth it to me to have it. (I've done my partner's car too.) the porter cables are workhorses and it should last me for decades, so it will readily pay for itself. (oh wait, I did get it as a present.) I haven't used it on my C30 yet because the car is still too new. But in the right light, I can already find some minor swirling that I'm sure I'll want to hit with a mild polish this fall. (Imagine that, paint defects on my black car. I'm shocked. )

I have 3 or 4 different polishes of varying levels of abrasiveness (none really harsh) tucked away in a corner, waiting for the chance to show me what they can do. I'm still learning how to get the results I want, but find I enjoy it. It's an activity that gives me close to immediate gratification, which is not something I get much at work. I am almost embarassed by how excited I am to finally try the new finish polish I bought.

For waxing, I do all my liquids by hand, but with pastes I go back and forth. I will usually do at least one of my collinite layers with the PC, but then I often end up doing another layer or two by hand.

You might find all this is something you and your son would enjoy doing together. Of course since you have a teenager, maybe you don't need a machine afterall. You can just let him try to do any corrections by hand. He might finish by the time he graduates.

I think the paint problems you have are all correctible (she says without any real idea what they look like). A good detailer should be able to do it. That's an approach too. You could bring the car in for a serious detail (including a machine polish or even some compounding) and give yourself a clean slate. I haven't had to try to correct anything major and figure that as long as I keep on top of it, the most I'll ever have to do are minor corrections.

I'm lucky that to me the PC 7424 feels like a toy. (I'd never say that about the vacuum cleaner.)

I have gone on more than enough.

[Voltex]

Thanks a lot, this is helfpul. I have done some more research and I found: 1) just use vinegar and then wax 2) use the Scratch remover with more oomph or do the full compound, then polish, then wax.

Vinegar will be easy enough to try in a small area or on one of the bird droppings. Frankly, I think 2 is the way to go, either with a Porter, and maybe a bit more aggressive substance.

Porter keeps popping up wherever I do research. I will call a few friends and see if they have one Oh Paris...

And what is it with you and vacuum cleaners?

[UpNorth]

Vinegar is magic I think. I'll be curious to learn if you get results with it. As for the vaccuum, it just seems more a chore than an indulgence. My cat, who is a good judge of character, seems to agree that there is something iffy about it too.

In any event, we'll always have Paris in our hearts, now won't we?

[Zaunce]

Originally Posted by UpNorth

In any event, we'll always have Paris in our hearts, now won't we?

That's not where I want her.

I'm thinking of the hood of my C30, of course.

[DaSwede1127]

I'd wager that the bird poo damage has eaten through your some of you clear coat (it doesn't get under, but it does etch and eat through) and has permanently etched it. You could try a more abrasive scratch remover with an orbital buffer, but there is only so much clear coat you can remove (which is what scratch remover does).

Vinegar probably will not help much. Vinegar is only used to get rid of left over wax right before you clay, polish, etc.

If you put Paris Hilton on the hood of your car, I'd be tempted to hit it with a semi. Paris Hilton = do not want.

[Voltex]

Quick update: I tried briefly using vinegar on a spot and bird poo etching, with no result. May try again leaving it on longer. Few of the spots appear to be water spots, they are smaller.

In better light the waxed side shows no swirls, while the unwaxed side continues to show some swirls (a la Smallvo).

DaSwede - would it be better if it were Salma Hayek on the hood? I could go for that, but she has no car wash commercials that I know of.

[UpNorth]

Reminds me of the saying a contractor friend shared with me:

a little spackle, a little paint
makes a carpenter what he ain't.

Nothing wrong with using a wax/fillers to put a pretty face forward. (of course now that has me thinking of the fun bag and related threads.)

[Voltex]

Originally Posted by UpNorth

Vinegar is magic I think. I'll be curious to learn if you get results with it. As for the vaccuum, it just seems more a chore than an indulgence. My cat, who is a good judge of character, seems to agree that there is something iffy about it too.

In any event, we'll always have Paris in our hearts, now won't we?

Now I have tried leaving vinegar on for 3 minutes, no results. Vinegar does remove whatever the quick detailer left behind - the surface was not as smooth. A shot of detailer and back to its smooth self.

My dogs don't like the vacuum either - it is competition for those food bits on the floor.

And yes, we will always have Paris...

[Voltex]

Stage 2 of my experimenting. Borrowed a cheapo 6" random orbiter from a friend. Applied 3M Scratch remover to the hood using the orbiter. Buffed off by hand, then hand applied Meguiars Gold Class wax.

Results: (will look at in better light tomorrow) better, but bird poo and spots still evident, although less so. Not sure if orbiter made a difference or just the fact that it was now the 2nd time I have applied scratch remover.

Technique: I did not apply pressure to the orbiter. In one area as I went round and round a bit longer than the other section and I could see rainbow like discoloration in the compound (I stopped; there was no heat that I could feel). The compound in that section was definitely harder to buff off, but the paint appeared no different.

Conclusions: The 10" random orbiters would be too large and difficult with curves, etc. Orbiter may help with scratch remover, but I think applying wax by hand is just fine.

Question: Would it be okay to also use an orbiter to buff OFF the scratch remover or the wax?

PS: Answering my own question, yes. Here is a good article on using a Porter 7424 http://www.autopia.org/forum/detaili...-polisher.html

[DaSwede1127]

Like I said about the vinegar, it will not doing anything except remove wax. When it comes to paint care, the only thing it's good for is applying after washing to get rid of old wax before you clay your car (although claying gets rid of wax as well). I wouldn't use pure vinegar either as that would more likely hurt the clear coat rather then help it any. Dilute it 3 to 1 with water and you should be just fine to remove wax with it (but that's it).

[UpNorth]

Originally Posted by Voltex

Question: Would it be okay to also use an orbiter to buff OFF the scratch remover or the wax?

PS: Answering my own question, yes. Here is a good article on using a Porter 7424 http://www.autopia.org/forum/detaili...-polisher.html

Glad we could help.

I have found that to get any real correction, I need to apply some pressure on the PC 7424 and use a 4" orange pad (I usually use white pads for light polishes.)

I love autopia. I'm glad you found some good info there too.

[TEXC30]

Hi All,

I'm new to the C30 line as my wife and I just picked up an 08 Titanium Grey R-Desgin. Haven't even had the car a full two days yet but we both love it!

I detail cars on the weekends and thought i'd throw in my .02 on detailing your paint.

UpNorth(Laura) has given some excellent advice on what to use to really get some results. A PC7424 with the right pads and products can really help restore paint. I run across cars here in the hot Texas Sun that have had bird droppings left on for days . A lot of times unfortunately the clear coat is eaten through or oxidized horribly so not much can be done without paint work. However, I have had success in restoring spots with a PC7424. Autopia, Autogeek, and Meguai'rs sites are great resources for learning how to detail your car while also supplying good products of all sorts to purchase. Youtube is also a great resource these days for learning how to use a PC and correct pads.

Ex.)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4009...eature=related <<< This is a great video for learning the basics of using a machine to polish/wax your car. (note, this is from Griot's so they will be using their products as examples in the vid, same applies in principle to other products of your choice)If you're willing to spend a little money and use one correctly, you can get the results you want

Glad to have joined this forum. Looking forward to learning more and more about our new C30