Bell Intercooler (FMIC) group buy... - Volvo C30 Forums and Community

fletcher · 01-20-2008, 01:04 AM

Hey guys,

Some of the S40 guys on Swedespeed.com are looking to set up a group but of C30 Bell intercoolers (fits S40s as well). They have gotten permission from Bell to do so.

Here's the thread:

http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=91888

Here the link to the $795 intercooler:

http://bellintercoolers.com/pages/C30Main.html

Bell's offer looks like this as far as group buy discounts:

Number Price
Purchased Discount

1 0%
2-3 3%
4-7 6%
8-12 12%
13-18 18%
19-24 24%
25+ 30%

30% off would be about $560. Pretty good discount if the S40 and C30 guys can get at least 25 to commit to purchase.

carguy · 01-20-2008, 03:30 AM

Better get some paypal deposits incase someone decides to back out last minute. Maybe have everyone paypal you an initial deposit that they can't get back, or the full price for the intercooler, and then if they back out last minute, they have to eat the extra price of the discount.

Smallvo · 01-20-2008, 01:59 PM

But this WILL void my warranty, right?

fletcher · 01-20-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smallvo

But this WILL void my warranty, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by carguy

Better get some paypal deposits incase someone decides to back out last minute. Maybe have everyone paypal you an initial deposit that they can't get back, or the full price for the intercooler, and then if they back out last minute, they have to eat the extra price of the discount.

actually, I don't have anything to do with setting up the group buy. I'm just passing the message on.

I'm not going to buy one myself.

As far as warranty concerns, it can affect your warranty if the dealer/volvo determines that the aftermarket part may have lead to the failure. So, its all down to how much risk is acceptable to you.

Geez, I bet aftermarket door pins and moose decals can affect your warranty if the dealer can find a way to prove it.

Shomare · 01-20-2008, 02:59 PM

I think that it's safe to say that adding an intercooler would be a sure fire way to void the warranty. There's just no need to even go there unless you plan to use your car aggressively, and that's the probable assumption that your service manager might make come service time.

bryand · 01-20-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shomare

... There's just no need to even go there unless you plan to use your car aggressively, ....

I agree entirely. As I've said before, take some measurements to see if you actually need to replace a perfectly good intercooler with a heavier one before you spend money replacing something you have already got.

fletcher · 01-20-2008, 06:03 PM

yup, this part will get your volvo service department's attention. And not the attention you want. That's why I'm shying away from changing downpipes, intercoolers, turbos, suspension system (except the rear sway bar). I'm still looking to do a stage 1 ecu flash which is detectable no matter what you read and may get you in trouble with your service dept depending on what you bring the car in for.

noah katz · 01-21-2008, 02:44 AM

"stage 1 ecu flash which is detectable no matter what you read and may get you in trouble with your service dept depending on what you bring the car in for."

So the claims of some of them that you can return your ECU to stock aren't true?

I guess that would be easy to track if there's a time stamp left whenever the ECU s/w is modified.

Unless they modify the time stamp too.

ChrisS · 01-21-2008, 08:58 AM

When it comes to software, anything is possible. The question is - How good is the programmer? I've written some embedded systems that were flash upgradable and unless you know all the special ports in the hardware, it is damn tough to "return to factory".

I could always tell when someone played with the units I was dealing with because the factory used a unique codepath to initially install the IDs (serial number, MAC address, etc) This codepath was only accessible by connecting to an on-board serial port. Updates made via the network connector were written slightly differently and in a way that was impossible to detect unless you connected directly to the EEPROM and sequentially downloaded the data.

Since our license scheme worked on the serial numbers and configured from a network connection, we found several large customers who thought just because they had separate networks that they could just reprogram the serial numbers. (Since we had to read the serial numbers, it wasn't that hard for a clever person to figure out how to write to them) We didn't even both wasting any time trying to make it hard to write serial numbers. Instead we made it easy to detect.

So, when we would do a firmware upgrade on the device, the boot loader would look for the anomaly in the EEPROM and when found, would Flag an error, and notify the user that the EEPROM write failed and that the device would need to be serviced by the manufacturer.

We even included a next-day shipping to return the device. When we get it back in the shop, it was examined. (I did a few) If we determined that it truly was a reset serial number, the lawyers took over.

In one case, we didn't fine the company as a smart cookie on their end did the serial number change on a few units so that critical locations could be swapped out in case of failure (redundant setups) and in fact worked with them to build that ability into the product.

Anyway, long story short... While the local dealer shop might be fooled, as soon as that ECU reaches someone who really knows the system, you're screwed.

torqueaholic · 01-21-2008, 08:09 PM

How much does an extra ecu cost?

You can keep the stock one for the dealership and then swap in the modified one for fun.

torqueaholic · 01-21-2008, 08:10 PM

The upgraded intercooler should actually INCREASE reliability because the air going into the engine will be cooler than stock (if boost levels are NOT turned up).

ciphermonk · 01-23-2008, 08:12 AM

I honestly wouldn't worry about it. If you've done just a flash, don't drag race or abuse your car, you won't have any reliability problems. Like Chris said though, if they (the stealership or Volvo) wants to find out if an ECU has been tampered with, it's pretty trivial to do so. My car has been flashed for 3 or 4 months now. I've taken it in for service and didn't bother with the whole unflash/reflash thing. While BSR is good, I doubt that they goto the trouble of making sure that the "return to stock" flash signature exactly matches the ECU as it came from the factory.

Flash your car. Don't abuse it and enjoy. I've got almost 8k miles on my flash.

quencho092 · 02-10-2008, 04:31 AM

Personally, my mentality is all DIY. Forget dealers and extended warranties. I have a Mini Cooper from 2003 and I simply stopped taking it for service and started doing things myself because they NEVER changed the oil, it was pitch black when i checked it.....dealerships.....

Do what you want to your car, do the research, do it right or have someone qualified do it, and take good care of the car; you wont have any problems unless you do something stupid like pump 30 psi of boost and cry when your car is a giant paper weight...

Jimmynva · 02-22-2008, 08:18 PM

Federal law prevents dealerships from voiding a warranty because of performance upgrades... http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=50096 they must prove the aftermarket part was the cause of the problem, that said, I know from experience dealerships vary in how they treat their customers with aftermarket parts. My VW dealership never gave me any problems, my wife's Mini dealership would install the parts (basic labor rates) and cover the parts under the manufacturer's warranty. My Volvo dealership "says" they're fine with aftermarket part, but I don't have anything in writing to back that claim. If in doubt, ask your dealership's Service manager.

Because all warranty claims start at the dealership, it just makes sense to start there.

noah katz · 02-23-2008, 03:45 AM

"Because all warranty claims start at the dealership, it just makes sense to start there."

Perhaps, but it ends with the Volvo regional rep, who makes the call on whether to cover a warranty claim or not.

01-20-2008, 01:04 AM	#1
fletcher 2008 C30 T5 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: PacificNW Posts: 1,927	Bell Intercooler (FMIC) group buy... Hey guys, Some of the S40 guys on Swedespeed.com are looking to set up a group but of C30 Bell intercoolers (fits S40s as well). They have gotten permission from Bell to do so. Here's the thread: http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=91888 Here the link to the $795 intercooler: http://bellintercoolers.com/pages/C30Main.html Bell's offer looks like this as far as group buy discounts: Number Price Purchased Discount 1 0% 2-3 3% 4-7 6% 8-12 12% 13-18 18% 19-24 24% 25+ 30% 30% off would be about $560. Pretty good discount if the S40 and C30 guys can get at least 25 to commit to purchase.

01-20-2008, 03:30 AM	#2
carguy C30WORLD SuperS Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Michigan, U.S.A Posts: 1,235	Better get some paypal deposits incase someone decides to back out last minute. Maybe have everyone paypal you an initial deposit that they can't get back, or the full price for the intercooler, and then if they back out last minute, they have to eat the extra price of the discount. __________________ C30 R-Design: Black Sapphire, Geartronic (), Seripas, Moonroof, climate package, power driver's seat // IPD all weather mats, IPD Black "R" Door pins with Chrome bezel.

01-21-2008, 08:58 AM	#9
ChrisS Owner since 4/29/09 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Apple Country, Massachusetts Posts: 2,762	When it comes to software, anything is possible. The question is - How good is the programmer? I've written some embedded systems that were flash upgradable and unless you know all the special ports in the hardware, it is damn tough to "return to factory". I could always tell when someone played with the units I was dealing with because the factory used a unique codepath to initially install the IDs (serial number, MAC address, etc) This codepath was only accessible by connecting to an on-board serial port. Updates made via the network connector were written slightly differently and in a way that was impossible to detect unless you connected directly to the EEPROM and sequentially downloaded the data. Since our license scheme worked on the serial numbers and configured from a network connection, we found several large customers who thought just because they had separate networks that they could just reprogram the serial numbers. (Since we had to read the serial numbers, it wasn't that hard for a clever person to figure out how to write to them) We didn't even both wasting any time trying to make it hard to write serial numbers. Instead we made it easy to detect. So, when we would do a firmware upgrade on the device, the boot loader would look for the anomaly in the EEPROM and when found, would Flag an error, and notify the user that the EEPROM write failed and that the device would need to be serviced by the manufacturer. We even included a next-day shipping to return the device. When we get it back in the shop, it was examined. (I did a few) If we determined that it truly was a reset serial number, the lawyers took over. In one case, we didn't fine the company as a smart cookie on their end did the serial number change on a few units so that critical locations could be swapped out in case of failure (redundant setups) and in fact worked with them to build that ability into the product. Anyway, long story short... While the local dealer shop might be fooled, as soon as that ECU reaches someone who really knows the system, you're screwed. __________________ Have you seen the latest Boston Volvo Karma Giveaway? If not, Go HERE. Past Winner items can be seen HERE For all your C30 needs: BOSTON VOLVO VILLAGE Parts ------------------- Classic C30 R-Design. Brilliant Blue. 6-speed, Bluetooth, Bi-Xenon, ECC w/IAQS, Dynaudio, laminated glass, puddle lights, 18" Atreus w/Pirelli(summer), 16" steel w/Hakka R(winter), hitch, ipd sway bar, LED rear/ chrome directionals, etc.

01-23-2008, 08:12 AM	#12
ciphermonk Performance Junkie Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 89	I honestly wouldn't worry about it. If you've done just a flash, don't drag race or abuse your car, you won't have any reliability problems. Like Chris said though, if they (the stealership or Volvo) wants to find out if an ECU has been tampered with, it's pretty trivial to do so. My car has been flashed for 3 or 4 months now. I've taken it in for service and didn't bother with the whole unflash/reflash thing. While BSR is good, I doubt that they goto the trouble of making sure that the "return to stock" flash signature exactly matches the ECU as it came from the factory. Flash your car. Don't abuse it and enjoy. I've got almost 8k miles on my flash. __________________ C30 2.0 Demo car Mods: BSR Stage 1 tune, Eurosport Air Filter Drop In, Magnaflow Exhaust (stock piping), 35% tint

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Bell Intercooler	Shomare	Performance Modifications	11	03-25-2008 04:42 PM

01-20-2008, 01:59 PM	#3
Smallvo C30 2.0 Black Sapphire Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kentucky USA Posts: 3,350	But this WILL void my warranty, right?

01-20-2008, 02:59 PM	#5
Shomare Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Syracuse, NY USA Posts: 2,583	I think that it's safe to say that adding an intercooler would be a sure fire way to void the warranty. There's just no need to even go there unless you plan to use your car aggressively, and that's the probable assumption that your service manager might make come service time.

01-20-2008, 06:03 PM	#7
fletcher 2008 C30 T5 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: PacificNW Posts: 1,927	yup, this part will get your volvo service department's attention. And not the attention you want. That's why I'm shying away from changing downpipes, intercoolers, turbos, suspension system (except the rear sway bar). I'm still looking to do a stage 1 ecu flash which is detectable no matter what you read and may get you in trouble with your service dept depending on what you bring the car in for.

01-21-2008, 02:44 AM	#8
noah katz C30WORLD Supe Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 576	"stage 1 ecu flash which is detectable no matter what you read and may get you in trouble with your service dept depending on what you bring the car in for." So the claims of some of them that you can return your ECU to stock aren't true? I guess that would be easy to track if there's a time stamp left whenever the ECU s/w is modified. Unless they modify the time stamp too.

01-21-2008, 08:09 PM	#10
torqueaholic C30W Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The OC Posts: 58	How much does an extra ecu cost? You can keep the stock one for the dealership and then swap in the modified one for fun.

01-21-2008, 08:10 PM	#11
torqueaholic C30W Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The OC Posts: 58	The upgraded intercooler should actually INCREASE reliability because the air going into the engine will be cooler than stock (if boost levels are NOT turned up).

02-10-2008, 04:31 AM	#13
quencho092 New User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Miami. FL Posts: 3	Personally, my mentality is all DIY. Forget dealers and extended warranties. I have a Mini Cooper from 2003 and I simply stopped taking it for service and started doing things myself because they NEVER changed the oil, it was pitch black when i checked it.....dealerships..... Do what you want to your car, do the research, do it right or have someone qualified do it, and take good care of the car; you wont have any problems unless you do something stupid like pump 30 psi of boost and cry when your car is a giant paper weight...

02-22-2008, 08:18 PM	#14
Jimmynva resident smart@55 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Coastal Virginia Posts: 484	Federal law prevents dealerships from voiding a warranty because of performance upgrades... http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=50096 they must prove the aftermarket part was the cause of the problem, that said, I know from experience dealerships vary in how they treat their customers with aftermarket parts. My VW dealership never gave me any problems, my wife's Mini dealership would install the parts (basic labor rates) and cover the parts under the manufacturer's warranty. My Volvo dealership "says" they're fine with aftermarket part, but I don't have anything in writing to back that claim. If in doubt, ask your dealership's Service manager. Because all warranty claims start at the dealership, it just makes sense to start there.

02-23-2008, 03:45 AM	#15
noah katz C30WORLD Supe Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 576	"Because all warranty claims start at the dealership, it just makes sense to start there." Perhaps, but it ends with the Volvo regional rep, who makes the call on whether to cover a warranty claim or not.